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Possible Alternative Approaches

Member's as volunteer caretakers. Potential issues: more complicated insurance issues maybe?

Insurance Issues

I don't see this as possible. Our insurance is completely inadequate for anything like this. The Board has enough on its plate, so finding our own insurance for this through our agent isn't practical. If a commercial daycare provider runs this, and PS:One, the board, and the landlord are listed as additional insured on the daycare's insurance, that would be an entirely different matter. --Rdpierce (talk) 22:27, 16 June 2015 (CDT)

insurance seeker

I don't see any reason the BoD would be responsible for finding insurance for this. But does sound like you are saying that if coverage were acquired, this would be ok --Hef (talk) 23:04, 16 June 2015 (CDT)

I'm adding Ryan's post from the mailing list thread so that we don't lose the discussion Skm (talk) 12:19, 18 June 2015 (CDT)
This would need a member vote to approve it. Additionally, it would be irresponsible to do without adequate insurance, and ours is completely inadequate here. If we use a child care company that provides its own general and professional liability insurance meeting the standards set out in our lease, who will also list PS:One, its officers and directors, and the laundry list of landlord-related entities our lease requires us to include, as "additional insureds", then this becomes an entirely different matter. Then, the babysitting service's insurance, not ours, would be primary for this situation. We also would need to investigate whether the child care company's policy has the common "molestation inclusion" and whether it is issued on a "claims made" basis, both of which would be problematic. from Ryan's post

No thank you.

Pumping Station: One is not the place to gather a large group of toddlers and preschoolers. --Dbever (talk) 22:10, 16 June 2015 (CDT)

RE: Size

The exact number of children can be capped, and tight chaperoning guides would be in place by vetted professionals. I'm not interested in turning ps:one into a daycare, but enabling babysitting to occur at PS:One. This is apparently a lot more cost effective and insurable than I had previously thought. --Hef (talk) 23:04, 16 June 2015 (CDT)

PS:Ones' involvement

If this would not be happening at PS1, or not be provided by ps1, as it sounds like from the page (although I'm not sure), why would PS1 want to get involved in it? It's a gigantic liability nightmare. In Illinois a waiver of liability for a child that is under the care or supervision of a person other than their parent or guardian is completely invalid and won't hold up in court, from my recollection. I can't cite statute for it, but this was the original reason behind not allowing minor members at ps1 when we passed that policy years ago by member vote.--Toba (talk) 22:13, 16 June 2015 (CDT)


Toba, the idea is that childcare would happen at the space for this (likely in the lounge), but this would be done through a commercial service that would provide liability insurance listing PS:One, the landlord, the board, etc. as named insured. --Rdpierce (talk) 22:22, 16 June 2015 (CDT)


Where would it take place, physically, in the space?--Toba (talk) 22:46, 16 June 2015 (CDT)

The Lounge

The most likely candidate would be the lounge. It's probably going to take come childproofing. Nearby commercial providers are being considered, as well as the possibility of renting additional commercial space from nearby business. The cost on this would be substantially higher. --Hef (talk) 23:40, 16 June 2015 (CDT)

I would strongly support having babysitting available but at a nearby location that's not PS1. It doesn't seem like PS1 is the ideal location for a childcare room. --Sylphiae (talk) 13:20, 17 June 2015 (CDT)

Child Proofing

I do not believe any space in our building can be reliably childproofed. --Dbever (talk) 08:37, 17 June 2015 (CDT)

I think in general, if we're going to speculate on what kind of child proofing would be needed, we should ask for advice from one or more potential caretakers. I imagine they would have a better idea of potential safety issues than any of us childless people discussing the issue. Actual parents might have a good sense of this as well, though they'll only have experience with their own children, and I expect professional caretakers will have had experience with a larger variety of children. Justin (talk) 09:40, 17 June 2015 (CDT)
There is a constant stream of members moving through the building, working with tools, toxic materials and other dangerous things. This 'hacker flotsam' tends to accumulate - policing any of our available spaces would be a monumental effort, and I don't believe any efforts at making our space friendly for groups of children are sustainable, or even desirable. --Dbever (talk) 09:59, 17 June 2015 (CDT)
If it's the case that we cannot ever be safe for children, then perhaps we should adjust our policies to say so. As it is, we already allow children in the space under parental supervision, and no attempts at child proofing have been made. What we're discussing right now is extending the policy to possibly also allow third parties to supervise children as well, with a strict limit on number of children per responsible adult. In that sense, it's not much different from what we already allow, but here we are making a conscious effort to be more responsible about it. Justin (talk) 10:35, 17 June 2015 (CDT)


  • Electrical outlets need to be covered
  • Furniture that can topple needs to be anchored
  • Anything that is a cord needs to be made out of reach of children.
Admittedly, the cord situation in the lounge is currently a bit of a mess and needs to be cleaned up anyways. Thinking about doing childproofing will probably affect how I do that. Justin (talk) 09:52, 17 June 2015 (CDT)
  • All chemicals need to be moved out
I suppose this would include alcohol. The liquor cabinet can have locks added to it, with the key kept in the safe or something. Or even just on top of the cabinet out of reach. I'm not sure what to do about the taps for beer. Justin (talk) 09:52, 17 June 2015 (CDT)
  • All medicines need to be out of reach
The only thing I can think of in the lounge medicine-wise would be in the first aid kit. This probably needs to be remounted on the wall, but I imagine it would generally be out of reach to most children. Any medicine type things in there can be replaced with child proof containers. Justin (talk) 09:52, 17 June 2015 (CDT)
  • Sharp items need to be moved out
I expect most sharp things in the lounge are transient. There's usually one or two pairs of scissors that live in there. They could be removed to the safe during any child care sessions. Justin (talk) 09:52, 17 June 2015 (CDT)
  • Bathrooms: Max water temp should be no more that 120 degrees.
Not really a problem considering the broken water heater right now ;-) . Once we fix that though, we can probably limit the temperature. Justin (talk) 09:52, 17 June 2015 (CDT)
  • Someone on the mailing list mentioned that the hanging bikes might be a problem with small children as well. There may have been other things too, I'm just adding this from memory hours later. Justin (talk) 17:15, 18 June 2015 (CDT)

There are 2 doors out of the lounge, 2 bathrooms, and the safe.

  • Affix a lock to the safe to prevent child access.
  • The bathroom doors currently lock from the inside, we should enable keyed entry.
  • Not sure how to do safety access control on the main doors, nor do I know what level is appropriate.

Sources of Childproofing Info

PS1 as a venue - Insufficient space

All other concerns aside, we don't have room. An event happening in the electronics lab already occupies a significant portion of available work space. If that event also makes the lounge unavailable for people to work in, you've now eliminated two of the three rooms available for working at a table in a reasonably quiet environment. The table in crafts is, by its nature, unsuitable for a lot of tasks - not to mention occupants need to vacate should someone want to use it for layout. --Dbever (talk) 10:10, 17 June 2015 (CDT)

We often have events that take up the electronics area and the lounge. It happens when PYOO and TOOOL overlap. By itself, I don't think this is a good reason to reject the idea. Skm (talk) 11:10, 17 June 2015 (CDT)

Mailing list thread

There is also discussion about the topic on the mailing list. An idea to open up PS:One to more people Skm (talk) 12:27, 18 June 2015 (CDT)