Changes

:If I’m reading the budget correctly, the reason for the shift in resources from Member votes to Area Hosts is not to enable the Area Hosts to buy more equipment, it’s to enable them to maintain and operate the equipment we already have. As we accumulate more equipment, our ongoing costs to own and operate that equipment goes up as well, consuming a larger portion of our budget. Cumulatively, we only have $3,813.00 allocated for new tools (of which, if you dig into the budget, almost 1/3rd is simply payments on our laser cutter loan), but fully $16,384 for consumable supplies (end mills, 3d printer filament, argon gas, electronics components, etc.) and another $6,082 is simply repairs and maintenance. Assuming people have confidence in the Area Hosts’ ability to correctly forecast the needs of their areas, it seems to me that this budget is appropriate to maintain, not to substantially expand, those areas. If we want more money for member votes and new toys, it sounds like we may want to look at a hike in dues. [[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:23, 12 January 2015 (CST)

:If I’m reading the budget correctly, the reason for the shift in resources from Member votes to Area Hosts is not to enable the Area Hosts to buy more equipment, it’s to enable them to maintain and operate the equipment we already have. As we accumulate more equipment, our ongoing costs to own and operate that equipment goes up as well, consuming a larger portion of our budget. Cumulatively, we only have $3,813.00 allocated for new tools (of which, if you dig into the budget, almost 1/3rd is simply payments on our laser cutter loan), but fully $16,384 for consumable supplies (end mills, 3d printer filament, argon gas, electronics components, etc.) and another $6,082 is simply repairs and maintenance. Assuming people have confidence in the Area Hosts’ ability to correctly forecast the needs of their areas, it seems to me that this budget is appropriate to maintain, not to substantially expand, those areas. If we want more money for member votes and new toys, it sounds like we may want to look at a hike in dues. [[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:23, 12 January 2015 (CST)

:: You are not reading the proposed budget correctly. The proposed budget allocates a substantial portion of funds to area hosts to purchase equipment. --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:40, 13 January 2015 (CST)

:: You are not reading the proposed budget correctly. The proposed budget allocates a substantial portion of funds to area hosts to purchase equipment. --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:40, 13 January 2015 (CST)

::: You are correct. I missed the "Equipment" category (I was looking at "Tools"), as I scanned through too quickly. My new suggestion is that line items exceeding $750 require a future vote to specifically authorize, and be used merely for planning purposes. I think this is actually largely in accord with the budget as written, and would require only a slight clarifying tweak to the language (see my post to the mailing list for full discussion). [[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:35, 13 January 2015 (CST)

::: You are correct. I missed the "Equipment" category (I was looking at "Tools"), as I scanned through too quickly. My new suggestion is that line items exceeding $750 require a future vote to specifically authorize, and be used merely for planning purposes. I think this is actually largely in accord with the budget as written, and would require only a slight clarifying tweak to the language (see my post to the mailing list for full discussion). [[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:35, 13 January 2015 (CST)

:::: I'd like to see the limit set to $500, but that does sound pretty good to me --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 11:06, 13 January 2015 (CST)

:::: I'd like to see the limit set to $500, but that does sound pretty good to me --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 11:06, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** Is there a 20% buffer --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** Is there a 20% buffer --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

* I see authorization for 2 large welding equipment items.

* I see authorization for 2 large welding equipment items.

** I don't see this. I see an anvil, casting equipment, and air extraction as equipment in Hot Metals. Where do you see welding equipment? --[[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:41, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** I don't see this. I see an anvil, casting equipment, and air extraction as equipment in Hot Metals. Where do you see welding equipment? --[[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:41, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** What make and model being purchased? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** What make and model being purchased? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** May I see the manual? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** May I see the manual? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

* What filters are required to keep the air safe to breath in the paint booth? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

* What filters are required to keep the air safe to breath in the paint booth? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

* Arts area - what is $2,500 on equipment being spent on? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

* Arts area - what is $2,500 on equipment being spent on? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** I don't see this. I only see $450 in equipment for the printer. --[[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:46, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** I don't see this. I only see $450 in equipment for the printer. --[[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:46, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** Does Arts area need a new printer? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** Does Arts area need a new printer? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** What event type of equipment is being considered --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** What event type of equipment is being considered --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** Is the furniture of sufficient quality? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** Is the furniture of sufficient quality? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** who is the furniture vendor? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** who is the furniture vendor? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** Furniture is "6 - 8 new adjustable office chairs for seating." I assume this is likely to replace some existing seating, so I don't imagine floor space is an issue here. --[[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:49, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** Furniture is "6 - 8 new adjustable office chairs for seating." I assume this is likely to replace some existing seating, so I don't imagine floor space is an issue here. --[[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:49, 13 January 2015 (CST)

* CNC Area

* CNC Area

** I'd like to see a breakdown of the $2,720 in supplies for this area --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** I'd like to see a breakdown of the $2,720 in supplies for this area --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

*** From the area budget: <ul><li>Acrylic Sheets Acrylic for Laser Cutter Authorizations $200<li>Shopbot Endmills Various Sizes of Endmills for Shopbot $ 600.00<li>ShapeOko Endmills Various smaller endmills/engraving tools for ShapeOko2 $ 200.00<li>Shopbot Wasteboards Replacement wasteboards $ 100.00<li>Plastic Nails Plastic Nails for Nailgun $ 100.00<li>Wood for Milling Materials for ShapeOko and Shopbot Authorizations $ 200.00<li>Vinyl For Vinyl Cutter $ 250.00<li>Vinyl Transfer Tape For Finishing Vinyl Stickers $ 60.00<li>3D Printer Filament 3mm Lulzbot Filament $ 200.00<li>3D Printer Filament 1.75 mm Makerbot Filament $ 200.00<li>3D Printer Filament CubePro Cartridges/ 1.75 mm filament $ 300.00<li>Tape for 3D Printer Beds Kapton, PET, Etc. $ 80.00<li>Acetone For dissolving ABS $ 50.00<li>Inkjet Cartridges Medium Format Inkjet Cartridges $ 250.00<li>Inkjet Paper Medium Format Inkjet Paper Rolls $ 60.00<li>Egg-Bot Electro-Kistka CNC Pysanky supplies $ 80.00</ul> --[[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:52, 13 January 2015 (CST)

*** From the area budget: <ul><li>Acrylic Sheets Acrylic for Laser Cutter Authorizations $200<li>Shopbot Endmills Various Sizes of Endmills for Shopbot $ 600.00<li>ShapeOko Endmills Various smaller endmills/engraving tools for ShapeOko2 $ 200.00<li>Shopbot Wasteboards Replacement wasteboards $ 100.00<li>Plastic Nails Plastic Nails for Nailgun $ 100.00<li>Wood for Milling Materials for ShapeOko and Shopbot Authorizations $ 200.00<li>Vinyl For Vinyl Cutter $ 250.00<li>Vinyl Transfer Tape For Finishing Vinyl Stickers $ 60.00<li>3D Printer Filament 3mm Lulzbot Filament $ 200.00<li>3D Printer Filament 1.75 mm Makerbot Filament $ 200.00<li>3D Printer Filament CubePro Cartridges/ 1.75 mm filament $ 300.00<li>Tape for 3D Printer Beds Kapton, PET, Etc. $ 80.00<li>Acetone For dissolving ABS $ 50.00<li>Inkjet Cartridges Medium Format Inkjet Cartridges $ 250.00<li>Inkjet Paper Medium Format Inkjet Paper Rolls $ 60.00<li>Egg-Bot Electro-Kistka CNC Pysanky supplies $ 80.00</ul> --[[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:52, 13 January 2015 (CST)

* What is $2,500 in equipment going to be spen on? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

* What is $2,500 in equipment going to be spen on? --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:25, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** $2,400 for the laser cutter loan, $100 for a shopvac for small CNC routers. --[[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:53, 13 January 2015 (CST)

** $2,400 for the laser cutter loan, $100 for a shopvac for small CNC routers. --[[User:KoalaBro2|Kyle]] ([[User talk:KoalaBro2|talk]]) 10:53, 13 January 2015 (CST)

=== Equipment Purchase questions ===

=== Equipment Purchase questions ===

There are a lot of questions above, but these are standard questions that eqipment authorizations need to be able to be defended against. For the most part, there is no exact equipment being listed on any of the equipment purchases, No links or locations of intended purchase. There is no consideration for floor space being taken into account. There are no assurances that arrangements for training of members are being taken into account. There are no assurances that people executing purchases have performed sufficient research, or are familiar with the items they are tasked with purchasing. --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:29, 13 January 2015 (CST)

There are a lot of questions above, but these are standard questions that eqipment authorizations need to be able to be defended against. For the most part, there is no exact equipment being listed on any of the equipment purchases, No links or locations of intended purchase. There is no consideration for floor space being taken into account. There are no assurances that arrangements for training of members are being taken into account. There are no assurances that people executing purchases have performed sufficient research, or are familiar with the items they are tasked with purchasing. --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 00:29, 13 January 2015 (CST)

==Feedback on Mailing List==

== Feedback on Mailing List ==

"Equipment in general budget moved to votes

"Equipment in general budget moved to votes

List:

List:

:*CTO Server and Switch upgrades - $1600

:* CTO Server and Switch upgrades - $1600

:**New equipment, especially at this amount, should be a separate vote

:** New equipment, especially at this amount, should be a separate vote

:*Hot metals casting equipment - $1000

:* Hot metals casting equipment - $1000

:**New equipment, especially at this amount, should be a separate vote

:** New equipment, especially at this amount, should be a separate vote

:*Hot metals air extraction - $1000

:* Hot metals air extraction - $1000

:**A single line purchase at this amount should be a separate vote

:** A single line purchase at this amount should be a separate vote

:*Woodshop 18" bandsaw - $1000

:* Woodshop 18" bandsaw - $1000

:**Is this replacing current equipment? Even so, this seems like too much not be its own separate vote.

:** Is this replacing current equipment? Even so, this seems like too much not be its own separate vote.

:*Woodshop jointer - $700

:* Woodshop jointer - $700

:**Even if this is replacing current equipment, this seems like too much to just be a non-descriptive line item in the general budget.

:** Even if this is replacing current equipment, this seems like too much to just be a non-descriptive line item in the general budget.

:*Woodshop planer - $700

:* Woodshop planer - $700

:**Even if this is replacing current equipment, this seems like too much to just be a non-descriptive line item in the general budget.

:** Even if this is replacing current equipment, this seems like too much to just be a non-descriptive line item in the general budget.

:*Woodshop Mortiser - $500

:* Woodshop Mortiser - $500

:**Is this new equipment? Why isn't this a separate vote?

:** Is this new equipment? Why isn't this a separate vote?

There are probably also others. New equipment and/or expensive equipment really should be standalone member votes.

There are probably also others. New equipment and/or expensive equipment really should be standalone member votes.

Move laser loan out of CNC

Move laser loan out of CNC

So, for the CNC area's sake, couldn't we put the laser cutter loan in general and administrative? Putting it in the CNC budget makes the CNC budget look larger than it actually is, especially if we were to just look at summary numbers.

So, for the CNC area's sake, couldn't we put the laser cutter loan in general and administrative? Putting it in the CNC budget makes the CNC budget look larger than it actually is, especially if we were to just look at summary numbers.

CNC total with laser cutter loan:     $6900

CNC total with laser cutter loan: $6900

CNC total without laser cutter loan: $4500

CNC total without laser cutter loan: $4500

Certain language moved out of vote

Certain language moved out of vote

The itemized expense report language (underneath "Area hosts will be issued a expense card with...") should be moved out of this vote. If the BOD ever needed to change the way this was approached, to fit actual needs, they would have to write a vote to amend. This would take away a lot of the freedom to figure out what works. I'd also like to see more current board input on this one, as we have the experience with this and especially since the BOD would be the ones charged with implementing.

The itemized expense report language (underneath "Area hosts will be issued a expense card with...") should be moved out of this vote. If the BOD ever needed to change the way this was approached, to fit actual needs, they would have to write a vote to amend. This would take away a lot of the freedom to figure out what works. I'd also like to see more current board input on this one, as we have the experience with this and especially since the BOD would be the ones charged with implementing.

The entire reporting bullet point should also be moved out of this vote. Violating vote language is really bad. If, for some reason, the treasurer takes 5 weeks to release the monthly report, they are now violating the vote. I get the intent here, but putting the language here is not safe. As well, I'd like to see more current board input on this part, as we have the experience actually managing this."-Bry

The entire reporting bullet point should also be moved out of this vote. Violating vote language is really bad. If, for some reason, the treasurer takes 5 weeks to release the monthly report, they are now violating the vote. I get the intent here, but putting the language here is not safe. As well, I'd like to see more current board input on this part, as we have the experience actually managing this."-Bry

"Though I'm still new 'round here, I fully sympathize with the desire of the members to have input on purchases of new equipment. I would suggest the following clarifying language for the budget. Where it says "Area hosts are authorized to spend up to $750 for a single capital expenditure," I would add: "Capital expenditures listed in the budget exceeding $750 are advisory, and must be confirmed by a separate vote of the membership." I would strike the line "Area hosts may spend over $750 on a single item to replace or repair existing tooling or machinery" entirely, as it is totally uncapped, and could lead to controversy of what constitutes a "replacement," and whether a replacement that is also an upgrade still counts, etc.

"Though I'm still new 'round here, I fully sympathize with the desire of the members to have input on purchases of new equipment. I would suggest the following clarifying language for the budget. Where it says "Area hosts are authorized to spend up to $750 for a single capital expenditure," I would add: "Capital expenditures listed in the budget exceeding $750 are advisory, and must be confirmed by a separate vote of the membership." I would strike the line "Area hosts may spend over $750 on a single item to replace or repair existing tooling or machinery" entirely, as it is totally uncapped, and could lead to controversy of what constitutes a "replacement," and whether a replacement that is also an upgrade still counts, etc.

That way we retain the clarity of what the Area Hosts expect to spend over the year (after all, most votes pass. If Triano expects to propose a vote for a $1,000 bandsaw, that vote is likely to pass and we would be well-advised to account for it in our budget). At the same time, we're still giving the membership a say in those large expenditures, by requiring the confirmation vote when Triano's got a specific bandsaw model located.

That way we retain the clarity of what the Area Hosts expect to spend over the year (after all, most votes pass. If Triano expects to propose a vote for a $1,000 bandsaw, that vote is likely to pass and we would be well-advised to account for it in our budget). At the same time, we're still giving the membership a say in those large expenditures, by requiring the confirmation vote when Triano's got a specific bandsaw model located.

Other thoughts:

Other thoughts:

I think the laser loan is appropriate in CNC. The loan, after all, represents the cost of us owning a laser, which is quite properly a CNC item. If the CNC budget looks high, it simply reflects the reality that CNC equipment is expensive.

I think the laser loan is appropriate in CNC. The loan, after all, represents the cost of us owning a laser, which is quite properly a CNC item. If the CNC budget looks high, it simply reflects the reality that CNC equipment is expensive.

I agree that it probably makes sense to strike the administrative details about expense cards. It would be entirely appropriate for the Board to publish a document to the Wiki stating that this is the procedure, without locking it in via a vote.

I agree that it probably makes sense to strike the administrative details about expense cards. It would be entirely appropriate for the Board to publish a document to the Wiki stating that this is the procedure, without locking it in via a vote.

I don't agree on striking the bit about the Treasurer's reports. Nothing in the language forbids the Treasurer from taking 5 weeks to complete a monthly report, it just states that a monthly report must eventually be completed. If the January report isn't published until June even, that doesn't appear to violate the language as written."-Kyle

I don't agree on striking the bit about the Treasurer's reports. Nothing in the language forbids the Treasurer from taking 5 weeks to complete a monthly report, it just states that a monthly report must eventually be completed. If the January report isn't published until June even, that doesn't appear to violate the language as written."-Kyle

I don't know that I even like the idea of equipment replacement without a vote. Who says the members what to replace a piece-- maybe they want to move on to something else."-Lucas  

I don't know that I even like the idea of equipment replacement without a vote. Who says the members what to replace a piece-- maybe they want to move on to something else."-Lucas  

==Uncomfortable with Consumables==

== Uncomfortable with Consumables ==

"I'm not entirely comfortable with paying for consumables-- it seems to

"I'm not entirely comfortable with paying for consumables-- it seems to

me that they should come out of the donation boxes in each area. But I'd

me that they should come out of the donation boxes in each area. But I'd

like to hear what other people think about this (I'm not a voting member

like to hear what other people think about this (I'm not a voting member

in any case)."-Ron B.

in any case)."-Ron B.