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From Pumping Station One
Talk:Board Policy on Animals (view source)
Revision as of 18:58, 30 January 2017
, 18:58, 30 January 2017→Some other resources
::::Jason, see the revised vote text. The policy itself is simple, and doesn't go into specifics. Resources are linked, and are not part of the policy itself. I would bet that corporations who forbid animals except service animals make sure customer service personnel who would encounter disabled customers have some kind of training so someone doesn't grill someone about their service animal and turn them away. At PS:One, any of us could host events, so in effect anyone could be in that role. I think this brings the issue to people's attention without binding the policy with specific language that may or may not be correct, or could become outdated. --[[User:Rdpierce|Rdpierce]] ([[User talk:Rdpierce|talk]]) 08:07, 5 May 2015 (CDT)
::::Jason, see the revised vote text. The policy itself is simple, and doesn't go into specifics. Resources are linked, and are not part of the policy itself. I would bet that corporations who forbid animals except service animals make sure customer service personnel who would encounter disabled customers have some kind of training so someone doesn't grill someone about their service animal and turn them away. At PS:One, any of us could host events, so in effect anyone could be in that role. I think this brings the issue to people's attention without binding the policy with specific language that may or may not be correct, or could become outdated. --[[User:Rdpierce|Rdpierce]] ([[User talk:Rdpierce|talk]]) 08:07, 5 May 2015 (CDT)
:::::This is really stupid. When is this going to be discussed at a public meeting so I can attend? [[User:Jason|Jason]] ([[User talk:Jason|talk]]) 08:31, 5 May 2015 (CDT)
:::::This is really stupid. When is this going to be discussed at a public meeting so I can attend? [[User:Jason|Jason]] ([[User talk:Jason|talk]]) 08:31, 5 May 2015 (CDT)
::::::Correction: the policy you guys already enacted is really stupid. Remove from this one a vague mention of unspecified questions and it's fine. You don't really need a written policy that states that you're going to comply with the law. If you want people using service animals to feel welcome, tell them their service animals are welcome. That's better than a policy all day. There are no legally prohibited questions. The reason the '''organization''' ''might'' not be permitted to ask questions is completely different than why it might, as a matter of etiquette, hope members don't ask questions. Getting smart with compliance language is dumb. Just state that you comply with the law and leave it at that. We can deal with members who harass others because of their disabilities. [[User:Jason|Jason]] ([[User talk:Jason|talk]]) 08:37, 5 May 2015 (CDT)
::::::: Jason, this will probably be discussed at tonight's Board meeting. These are open to the membership. You've got some great points here. Would you be willing to stop by the meeting? --[[User:Rdpierce|Rdpierce]] ([[User talk:Rdpierce|talk]]) 09:38, 5 May 2015 (CDT)
::::::: Jason, you didn't come by the board meeting, and I didn't follow up here because I was waiting for f2f comments. I'll add a comment here. To follow up from Ryan, I got a little training at a job because I'd be interviewing people and I don't remember exactly what questions they told us were verboten, but they did cover some. I think at the space it's fuzzy since people aren't staff and aren't interviewing people for jobs. Anyway, originally I asked that we only make a policy that indicates service animals are welcome according to laws x,y,z but compromised to allow the extra language after some board discussion. I'm still not certain whether to include resources about that outside of a policy being that we don't interview people as paid staff. The board interviews people for non-paid positions. --[[User:Skm|Skm]] ([[User talk:Skm|talk]]) 07:53, 6 May 2015 (CDT)
::::::::I got busy. Here's what I would have said. A a caveat, I'm only commenting because I find policies that are unnecessary or purport to regulate unspecified behavior to be inappropriate. As drafted, this policy is a problem, not a solution.
::::::::With regard to ''who'' must comply with applicable law, there's nothing fuzzy about the organizational structure of PS:One — the ADA requires a ''business'' that serves the public to make reasonable accommodations, including accommodating service animals. PS:One is the entity that must comply with all applicable laws. Nobody else. There shouldn't be anything fuzzy about whether members have anything to do with PS:One's compliance. A corporation acts through its officers and directors. Thus, PS:One ''does'' have staff. I am not staff. I am not responsible for ensuring PS:One is in compliance with the law. I am responsible for abiding by PS:One policy. I accept the additional responsibility of being a decent guy and looking out for PS:One's best interests, as I do.
::::::::As to questions, no applicable law regulates what one may ask persons with service animals Not PS:One through its officers or directors, and certainly not through the members. It's sometimes appropriate to ask if animals even are service animals, which entails asking a person about his or her disability.
::::::::The need to implement a policy with regard to pets comes solely from PS:One's CGL policy not covering incidents involving certain kinds of animals ("live animals", although that seems overbroad — is that the actual language of the insurance policy?). PS:One already had a legal obligation to comply with the ADA and Illinois Human Rights Act, so this policy only needs to make clear that certain kinds of animals are not permitted, except that all service animals as defined by the ADA are permitted.
::::::::As a practical matter, I don't know ''why'' you all want to regulate unspecified speech. I also don't think it's appropriate to purport to regulate etiquette. [[User:Jason|Jason]] ([[User talk:Jason|talk]]) 12:43, 7 May 2015 (CDT)
== Proposed New Policy Text ==
== Proposed New Policy Text ==
http://www.anythingpawsable.com/service-animals/what-should-i-do-when-i-see-a-service-dog/ - Discussion of Service Animal etiquette
http://www.anythingpawsable.com/service-animals/what-should-i-do-when-i-see-a-service-dog/ - Discussion of Service Animal etiquette
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I suggest:<br>
:Live animals are not permitted on the premises of Pumping Station: One<s>.</s><span style="color: blue;">,</span> <s>No person may bring a live animal to Pumping Station: One.</s>
:<s>For the purposes of this policy, animals do not include humans.</s> <span style="color: blue;">except that</span> <s>S</s>service animals <span style="color: blue;">, as defined by the Americans With Disabilities Act and applicable state law</span> are allowed on the premises<s> as defined under applicable law. Pumping Station: One recognizes service animals as defined by Title II and Title III of the ADA.</s>
:Persons must comply with all applicable laws and regulations regarding service animals<s>, including limitations on questions one may ask persons with service animals</s>.
[[User:Jason|Jason]] ([[User talk:Jason|talk]]) 12:52, 7 May 2015 (CDT)
I like this --[[User:Skm|Skm]] ([[User talk:Skm|talk]]) 13:49, 7 May 2015 (CDT)
"....law <s> are allowed on the premises</s>" could be removed because it is redundant. --[[User:Rdoeksen|Rdoeksen]] ([[User talk:Rdoeksen|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2015 (CDT)
Taking into account what Jason and Ray have said, I propose the Board replace this policy with the following text:
''Live animals are not permitted on the premises of Pumping Station: One, except for service animals as defined by the Americans With Disabilities Act and applicable state law. Persons must comply with all applicable laws and regulations regarding service animals.''
--[[User:Rdpierce|Rdpierce]] ([[User talk:Rdpierce|talk]]) 01:08, 30 July 2015 (CDT)
== Insurance discussion history ==
For posterity sake, here is what the insurance agent told us: ''The animal one is going to be tough as well. I have inquired about keeping the exotic animals exclusion on and removing domestic animals exclusion but they wont budge on this. This will go on the individuals responsibility of Personal Liability.''
:What does "the individuals responsibility of Personal Liability" mean? [[User:Justin|Justin]] ([[User talk:Justin|talk]]) 09:09, 22 July 2015 (CDT)
:: I don't know. It's poorly worded or maybe it's technical jargon. [[User:Skm|Skm]] ([[User talk:Skm|talk]]) 19:59, 22 July 2015 (CDT)
==Some other resources==
http://www.ag.state.il.us/rights/servanimals.html
https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet
