Changes

==Background==

== Background ==

* uniform hardware:

* uniform hardware:

** An adimrable goal, but we're not running a computer lab with 20 identical machines. They have different use profiles, and we should spec hardware for usage primarily, and consistency where possible. Using a single vendor is a big win in terms of support.

** An adimrable goal, but we're not running a computer lab with 20 identical machines. They have different use profiles, and we should spec hardware for usage primarily, and consistency where possible. Using a single vendor is a big win in terms of support.

== Considerations ==

== Considerations ==

** Hef and I both agree that proper discrete graphics are important. --[[User:Dbever|Dbever]] ([[User talk:Dbever|talk]])

** Hef and I both agree that proper discrete graphics are important. --[[User:Dbever|Dbever]] ([[User talk:Dbever|talk]])

** I disagree. Most built-in graphics cards these days can process billions of polygons per second -- way more than is needed for most 3D modelling. CAD rarely requires using massive texture maps, which is what most modern video cards are built for. 10 years ago you wanted discrete graphics cards for CAD. This is not needed today for anything anyone is likely to be working on at PS1. My little Macbook Pro's discrete graphics is fine for very highly tessellated models. There are only two things driving high-end video cards today: super hi-res, photo-realistic video games and GPGPU programming. We need neither for CAD. It is a waste of money. Spend the money on CPU and memory. [[User:Rob|Rob]]

** I disagree. Most built-in graphics cards these days can process billions of polygons per second -- way more than is needed for most 3D modelling. CAD rarely requires using massive texture maps, which is what most modern video cards are built for. 10 years ago you wanted discrete graphics cards for CAD. This is not needed today for anything anyone is likely to be working on at PS1. My little Macbook Pro's discrete graphics is fine for very highly tessellated models. There are only two things driving high-end video cards today: super hi-res, photo-realistic video games and GPGPU programming. We need neither for CAD. It is a waste of money. Spend the money on CPU and memory. [[User:Rob|Rob]]

** I don't have hard data, but [[User:Rob|Rob]]'s supposition is at least plausible, and very likely right. We should ask a couple cad pros. --[[User:dwlocks|dwlocks]]

** I don't have hard data, but [[User:Rob|Rob]]'s supposition is at least plausible, and very likely right. We should ask a couple cad pros. --[[User:dwlocks|dwlocks]]

=== Dirty Environment ===

=== Dirty Environment ===

== Hardware Configurations ==

== Hardware Configurations ==

=== Avadirect Vesa Mount ===

=== Avadirect Vesa Mount ===

* MICROSOFT Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit Edition, OEM w/ Media

* MICROSOFT Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit Edition, OEM w/ Media

* WARRANTY Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, 3 Year Labor Warranty)

* WARRANTY Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, 3 Year Labor Warranty)

* Total: '''$1202.72'''   --loans

* Total: '''$1202.72''' --loans

** Not in line with proposal? --[[User:dwlocks|dlwocks]]

** Not in line with proposal? --[[User:dwlocks|dlwocks]]

** This was early research. --[[User:Dbever|Dbever]] ([[User talk:Dbever|talk]]) 15:45, 30 April 2014 (CDT)

** This was early research. --[[User:Dbever|Dbever]] ([[User talk:Dbever|talk]]) 15:45, 30 April 2014 (CDT)

* From the proposal, the thinkcentre with core i7 is *substantial* overkill for anything ps1 users will do. Core i3 should be fine. I still stand by 2 cpu systems, but 4 will work. However, Small local ssds will boost performance alot more than huge processing power. --[[User:dwlocks|dlwocks]]

* From the proposal, the thinkcentre with core i7 is *substantial* overkill for anything ps1 users will do. Core i3 should be fine. I still stand by 2 cpu systems, but 4 will work. However, Small local ssds will boost performance alot more than huge processing power. --[[User:dwlocks|dlwocks]]

* There is benefit from uniform *VENDOR* hardware purchasing. IE all thinkcenters. However 100%consistent specs across the board is a waste. How can you justify discrete graphics and core i7 for a *registration* machine?? Make it a thinkcenter so the bios is the same, and it has similar remote management stuff, but no one buys cad hardware for a kiosk. --[[User:dwlocks|dlwocks]]

* There is benefit from uniform *VENDOR* hardware purchasing. IE all thinkcenters. However 100%consistent specs across the board is a waste. How can you justify discrete graphics and core i7 for a *registration* machine?? Make it a thinkcenter so the bios is the same, and it has similar remote management stuff, but no one buys cad hardware for a kiosk. --[[User:dwlocks|dlwocks]]

** Dan's got a point. With a long-term, on-site warranty, I can't imagine that we could expect to swap a machine for more than a few days - I'd happily install whatever critical software on a less-powerful machine to hold us over that long.  

** Dan's got a point. With a long-term, on-site warranty, I can't imagine that we could expect to swap a machine for more than a few days - I'd happily install whatever critical software on a less-powerful machine to hold us over that long.  

*** once you find the right flags, software installs it self using the AD. That way you turn on, join the domain, reboot, software is installed. go.

*** once you find the right flags, software installs it self using the AD. That way you turn on, join the domain, reboot, software is installed. go. --[[User:dwlocks|dwlocks]]

* Spinning optical drives are quaintly 20th century. Cute. Not something we should pay for. Not even $20. This will usually allow a smaller form factor too. --[[User:dwlocks|dlwocks]]

* Spinning optical drives are quaintly 20th century. Cute. Not something we should pay for. Not even $20. This will usually allow a smaller form factor too. --[[User:dwlocks|dlwocks]]

== two machines for arts? ==

== two machines for arts? ==

* Why does arts need two design machines, especially considering one of them is a very expensive mac? [[User:Dbever|Dbever]] ([[User talk:Dbever|talk]])

* Why does arts need two design machines, especially considering one of them is a very expensive mac? [[User:Dbever|Dbever]] ([[User talk:Dbever|talk]])

** valid question, I'm going to talk to Shelly. I think I might have added it without coordinating with her first. --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 12:52, 30 April 2014 (CDT)

** valid question, I'm going to talk to Shelly. I think I might have added it without coordinating with her first. --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 12:52, 30 April 2014 (CDT)

** Honestly, it's because the arts area requested a mac. They feel it would be useful for the knitting machine and design software (Adobe CS if I recall correctly). --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 12:52, 30 April 2014 (CDT)

* My question would be "Why the very expensive Mac? Can't whatever is being done on it be done on a less expensive but equally capable PC? [[User:Scyg|Scyg]]

* IMHO it's the 27" part that kills us. Seriously. 24 is probably still overkill. Yes big screens are nice. However, knitting is *decidedly* low res. --[[User:dwlocks]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 13:58, 30 April 2014 (CDt)

** Honestly, it's because the arts area requested a mac.  They feel it would be useful for the knitting machine and design software (Adobe CS if I recall correctly). --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 12:52, 30 April 2014 (CDT)

** I would argue that a mac mini at half the cost makes a lot more sense, if we must be buying apple hardware. --[[User:Dbever|Dbever]] ([[User talk:Dbever|talk]]) 15:57, 30 April 2014 (CDT)

** Why? --[[User:Davidfell|David Fell]]

*** It was ridiculously expensive and a similarly equipped PC will serve sufficiently for design purposes. I'm personally of the opinion that those interested in machine knitting should be looking out for a mac mini - i'd happily vote for a proposal to purchase one new or used. --[[User:Dbever|Dbever]] ([[User talk:Dbever|talk]]) 08:07, 8 May 2014 (CDT)

*** Interest in the mac was heavily questioned, and I wasn't able to establish interest in the mac before running out of time before the "drop dead" date, so I cut it as an incomplete feature. --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 01:51, 10 May 2014 (CDT)

* IMHO it's the 27" part that kills us. Seriously.  24 is probably still overkill.  Yes big screens are nice.  However, knitting is *decidedly* low res. --[[User:dwlocks]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 13:58, 30 April 2014 (CDt)

** I would argue that a mac mini at half the cost makes a lot more sense, if we must be buying apple hardware. --[[User:Dbever|Dbever]] ([[User talk:Dbever|talk]]) 15:57, 30 April 2014 (CDT)

 

* Totaling the cost of the items listed doesn't equal the total shown. ? Mskilton

** Dan made an adjustment to the display price column to change total price per unit to base price of tower. I am not sure what the reason was for this, I'll change it back, and ask for a better explanation --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 16:52, 6 May 2014 (CDT)

** I also updated the machine count without updating the total, I'll correct for this shortly. --[[User:Hef|Hef]] ([[User talk:Hef|talk]]) 16:53, 6 May 2014 (CDT)